Armed Israel guards in other airports?

Discussion in 'Travel Security' started by Bastholm, Jun 27, 2011.  |  Print Topic

  1. Bastholm
    • Original Member

    Bastholm Active Member

    According to Danish media (among other seen here) Israel has threatened to sac flights from Denmark to Israel. The reason is that Denmark won’t allow armed Israeli security in Danish airports and on Danish flights.

    Israel has demanded to have their own security personnel in CPH, and won’t accept a solution where the Israeli personnel work together with the Danish security personnel…

    So I wonder is it common that armed Israeli guards work in airports in other countries?
     
  2. MSPeconomist
    • Original Member

    MSPeconomist Gold Member

    I assume that SAS hasn't been flying a Tel Aviv route recently?

    I wonder what they plan to charge the airline for their "services"? I could imagine that Israel could put their own security forces on El Al flights but this seems a stretch. To put armed officials in a Danish airport seems to violate national sovereignty.

    Does anyone know if the USA puts Air Marshals on other flag carriers and if there's any financial arrangement other than the free seats that are required to be made available, even in FC. I've never noticed USA personnel involved with security procedures at foreign airports for USA-bound planes, even on USA-flag carriers, although I do know that we sometimes insist on stricter rules and additional procedures, such as the security predictable questions, stricter liquid rules, and no early checkin and airside access for USA-flag carriers (for example, at SIN).
     
  3. Bastholm
    • Original Member

    Bastholm Active Member

    You're right... At the moment Cimber Sterling is flying 3 times a week - but I think they might be codesharing with SAS.

    But as danish security personnel in the airport isn't armed - it's quite unthinkable that Israelian guards will be accepted with guns in the airport. I recall a debate some years ago when the US wanted to put their airmarshall on flights to/from Denmark (and other European contries as well)... But I haven't heard anything about it lately.

    So we might need an insider to enlighten us on your financial questions.
     
  4. Bastholm
    • Original Member

    Bastholm Active Member

    It seems like Israel is used to get it their way... In airline security matters as well :eek:

    Arkia has now according to this site moved their planned route between CPH and Tel Aviv to MMX (Malmø Sturup some 20-30 km away on the other side of the Öresund Bridge). Arkia will bus their passengers to the new departur airport.

    QI is however still allowed to fly from CPH to Isreal despite the missing armed Isreali Guards in CPH...

    Quite unbelievable that Sweden accept Israeli gunmen in their airports!
     
  5. HaveMilesWillTravel
    • Original Member

    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

    so there are Israeli (-employed) armed agents at all international airports that El Al is flying to/from?
     
  6. ande777emt
    • Original Member

    ande777emt Gold Member

    The US does not use Air Marshals on non US carriers. EU carriers especially would throw hissy fits and they would probably "mysteriously disappear" in a few EU locales.

    In the lovely wikileaks diplomacy debacle I found a couple cables discussing this and there was some pretty sketchy things EU countries were threatening and had done to Sky Marshalls.

    Now that's why they leave their gun/equipment in a "secret" location on the US registered plane, and theoretically it's not supposed to be found by maintenance or an FA as has happened on DL.
     
    Bastholm and MSPeconomist like this.
  7. ande777emt
    • Original Member

    ande777emt Gold Member

    Yep, EL AL has their own, armed security. When the one nutcase started shooting at EL AL check in at LAX in 2002, he was fatally shot by an EL AL security guard.
     
  8. HaveMilesWillTravel
    • Original Member

    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

    Yes, but LAX isn't "all international airports that El Al is flying to/from". It doesn't surprise me that they are allowed to have privately employed armed security at a US airport. But I wonder if that's true everywhere they fly to.
     
  9. ande777emt
    • Original Member

    ande777emt Gold Member

    I've seen them present at AMS and BKK. I don't know about elsewhere.
     
  10. MSPeconomist
    • Original Member

    MSPeconomist Gold Member

    FAMs leave their guns on aircraft or in the sterile area of airports and planes connected to such? That's scary
     
  11. ande777emt
    • Original Member

    ande777emt Gold Member

    They are absolutely forbidden from bringing them into the EU for one thing, hence the DL hijacking kit was found on a plane. There was an incident where on left some magazines and rounds in a hotel air vent in India and they're pretty much banned from bringing them off the plane now in most places, since two Italian businessmen almost got blamed for that incident.

    There was also the Brazil incident where two FAM's arrested the wife of a Brazilian judge for being drunk/disorderly and instead they were detained, their passports seized, and were charged with assault instead.

    Needless to say they don't appear to be very well liked overseas.
     
  12. HaveMilesWillTravel
    • Original Member

    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

    This is rapidly going off-topic... but

    "The incident occurred on October 1 on Continental Flight 128 from Houston, Texas, to Rio de Janeiro. During the flight, a female passenger who appeared to be intoxicated tried to serve herself drinks by going to the plane's galley, one source said. The plane's crew asked air marshals to intervene, and two marshals approached the woman, who began struggling with them."

    I am not convinced that air marshals should intervene in situations like this.


     
  13. Bastholm
    • Original Member

    Bastholm Active Member

    Very informative replies in this thread... This debate illustrate how the way we think of weapons and the use of power is very different in different parts of the world.

    I didn't know (or remember) the examples above - but I knew about US Air Marshalls - and as most (I guess) europeans I have been quite amazed about the US-american logic... if you fear weapons on a plane... Bring some more.
     
  14. ande777emt
    • Original Member

    ande777emt Gold Member

    IMHO, now that passengers will react and take down a shoe bomber, an underwear bomber, or other nut job threatening a flight, I share the view of several congressmen that the FAM program is wasting our tax dollars and applaud the EU taking what some may call "unduly harsh actions".

    Nowadays as well, it seems that the airlines are throwing the FAM's back in Y (where they should be, not in C or F, the seats nutjobs are too cheap to pay for).
     
    Bastholm likes this.
  15. Captain Oveur
    • Original Member

    Captain Oveur Gold Member

    That was an incredibly stupid outing of the FAMs by the flight crew. While I can't say for sure, I'm pretty sure they are trained to handle situations like idiot poaching from the galley.

    And I have read elsewhere that FAMs specifically do not react to every abnormality on a plane, fearing some sort of attention diversion.

    If FAs can truly get in trouble for outing FAMs, discplinary action should have been taken against them in this situation. But since every CYA move is covered under the "anything for security" blanket (horribly over-used, BTW), they will likely get a reminder, and that's it.
     
    HaveMilesWillTravel likes this.
  16. HaveMilesWillTravel
    • Original Member

    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

    FAMs arrest shoplifter. Drunk shoplifter. Wonder who served the drunk the booze to get her into that state?
     

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