Credit card churning jumping the shark?

Actually, it depends on the card. Some do pay out between $100 and $200.

I understand why people don't like constant blog posts hawking credit cards, but I don't see a problem with this offer. The nice thing here is that if you don't want help, simply ignore the email. If you do, then you (presumably) get valuable advice about which credit cards to sign up for. In exchange, you use the links provided to you. It doesn't cost you anything and if you're new to credit card churning, it could be incredibly valuable. Yes, you would have to trust Online Travel Review to give good advice, but it is clearly in his best interest to try to do so.

Isn't his best interest to have many folks sign up for cards via his website?

I don't see why you think bloggers should post how much their referral fee is. Does a store tell you the profit they make on a shirt you buy? Does a restaurant post on the menu how much profit they make on a burger?

I feel that if a blog tips me off about a great offer I may have not seen elsewhere, let them get their piece of the pie. However, I think some blogs might start pushing inferior offers just to get suckers to apply and get them their referral fee. It also seems like blogs that used to actually post interesting travel related info just talk about credit cards these days... I also wonder why so many blogs now post the same crap?

Your information is just not true. I have a flexoffers account (not that I qualify for anything worth pushing). I know a month or so ago it told the payoffs for various cards. Amex, Chase & Citi paid in the $160 range. When I check now it just says that the referral fee depends on the card.
There is a list of payouts for Discover Card. You can get $115 for a bunch of those just as an example.
Here is a list of Discover Card payouts:

Discover® Open Road Card for Students $ 30.00
Discover® Student Card - Tropical Beach $ 30.00
Discover® Student Card $ 30.00
Discover® Student Card - Clear $ 30.00
Miles by Discover® Card $ 115.00
Discover® Student Card - Monogram Collection $ 30.00
Discover® More Card $ 115.00
Discover® Open Road Card - $150 Restaurant.com Gift Certificate $ 115.00
Discover® Motiva Card $ 115.00
Escape by Discover® Card $ 115.00
Discover® Mix Tape Student Card $ 30.00
Discover® More Card - 18 Month Promotional Balance Transfer $ 115.00
Discover® Student Card - $25 Cashback Bonus $ 30.00
Discover® More Card - $0 Balance Transfer Fee! $ 115.00

Yes, but presumably he will only get and keep good customers by giving good advice.

I personally think that getting the miles (finding cards that give you the miles) is the easy part. Finding the seats is the challenge. Who's going to help with that? That's why I think (and mentioned in another thread) that a combined service would be better for the targeted newbie -- the last sentence of that email is just misleading otherwise.

When I go to a restaurant, I have a pretty good idea what the profit margin is. After all, I see a price on the menu and I know what a steak costs etc.

I think a better comparison would mutual funds. Would you buy mutual funds from a broker or financial adviser without knowing if there is a sales load (and if so, how much)?

In this case, I don't think most newbies would expect the site to earn $500+ for a referral of say, five cards. As a consumer, I'd like to be able to judge the potential for a conflict of interest.

But yes, you are right. These are businesses primarily that also present themselves as members of the community (how often do you see some of them here?). So it's perfectly within their rights to operate however they want. I am just waiting for the first newbie to show up here with a problem of actually getting the seats for the miles they acquired from all those cards.

By the way, are there any rules on MilePoint about using referral links in posts here?

I have no clue what a restaurant's profit margin is. I guess i'd like to know. I might know the cost of a steak at the supermarket but that does not account for tons of other costs that probably outweigh the food itself!

If anybody thinks a site will tell them which cards to apply for to earn miles which will then equate to a specific flight, then they are dreaming. This is the second site/ business that has been discussed in as many days on here related to this topic. They might sound appealing to someone that has no clue about miles & booking flights but they sound like BS to me.

Great find. I am only guessing but if that last sentence is true would CC signup bonus offers that have min spend requirements not be taxable?

Everybody gets the same payout on referrals if you are accepted into their affiliate program. An affiliate program is the advertiser, Chase, Citi, Discover. The blogger has to apply to be able to display affiliate links and all bloggers get the same $$ pay out from approvals. Each affiliate program decides how much they want to pay and CC's are by far the most lucrative. They also happen to be the topic of obsession for many in the Miles/Points community.

Should people divulge how much each google ad is paying them too?

Here are my thoughts on the affiliate adverts.

I think full disclosure is definitely the best policy and I think we always knew that those ads were making money for the bloggers right? I mean its not that hard to put together.

But I do agree some people relentlessly push the wonders of a certain CC that has a sub-par offer and that it is obvious what their goal is. I like to think I can see through that but I know some of the noobs that wander onto those sites may not be as Points aware as we all are.

I mean look at the affiliate ads on the other forum and right here on MP. I think that is a fine way to display affiliate ads but to create review after review of the same CC offer is not contributing to the community.

I can't argue with that! I wouldn't be surprised to see someone compete by offering the whole package (credit card churning advice + help with finding the best award travel). The advantage of packaging it altogether is that the person offering the service would get paid by getting credit card referrals and the customer would get a great deal of valuable help at no cost to themselves. In fact I know that I would be willing myself to use someone's referral links if, in exchange, they would handle my Delta award reservations and other similar difficult things. Of course, I would have to trust that they were good at what they do...

I think you hit the nail on the head. They key is a "turnkey" service that helps determine applications AND handle finding the awards.

Some bloggers do provide award finding services (PointsGuy and View From the Wing) and do offer info on acquiring cards. But there is usually a long timeline for acquiring enough miles (unless it's just domestic and/or coach flights) that can vary from a few months to years. And award charts and availability change a lot over time..............

Maybe I am wrong, but aren't the services provided by PointsGuy and View From the Wing a service you pay for? These newer sites are trying to make the card referral fees their payment for services from what I can tell.

Yes. The only way I know to get award booking help for free is here on Milepoint and on FT.
I was responding to deant's dream of a service that provides award booking and credit card advice.
Of course, the dream is right here on MP!

I did see a site that would help you for free if you already applied for a CC with one of their links. It was on the trust system and I do not know if they ever called somebody out on it or not.

Others are "hackers" and they sell an information product in addition to offering reward finding services for a direct payment.

I think all of them have the right to do it and I dont know if there is a best way.

Many bloggers or reward booking sites often charge more than a credit card affiliate fee would generate. As long as there is a genuine exchange of knowledge and advice, aka not just "here is the deal apply for it", it is a good exchnage. Again if you are willing to pay for it.

Currently $1.63 per 1,000 page views or $0.94 per click (I'm not sure which metric it's using). I've made $10.08 in the last two weeks, mostly because I only have one ad on my recent posts and haven't bothered to add a second one to the bottom. I've been pretty clear about how little it is. Also, the distinction is that Google doesn't tell me it's going to display ads for a certain product, implicitly encouraging me to market it.

I'd have less displeasure about the whole affiliate marketing debacle if everyone would simply say they're doing it because it's a lucrative way to make money for their time spent blogging, mileage running, etc. Simple. No more disclaimer about a small referral fee, they're trying to promote only the best offer, etc. Whether it's $30 or $150 for a single app, I don't consider either to be small. While claiming that only the best offer is listed regardless of referral may be truthful, when the referral link is the best offer it gets promoted quite heavily. It's a business and it's business income.

Because TPG runs a separate LLC to do nothing but flog credit card sign-ups I have a higher level of respect for this. Mind you the primary site still pushes credit cards which bugs me - although lately it's been how best to use / earn points for existing card holders which is highly beneficial. Just the same, I'd rather there be nothing but banners or blogroll linking to the card website with no more than perhaps a single review of a particular card's merits.

Of course I may be the pot calling the kettle black since I've owned a handful of websites with affiliate links over the years...

I think there's a difference. The blogger isn't selling the credit card. He/she is encouraging you to buy it from someone else, and you trust him/her because past advice on other issues has been useful.

To use your analogy, a blogger's CC referral credit is more like a shirt store telling you that you should get a burger across the street. Would you be upset if you found out the burger shop gave the shirt store a referral credit? Maybe not, but you might if it were a large number. It might cause you to second guess the clerk at the shirt store and wonder if the burger place really is that good.

I'm not telling anyone that they have to follow my advice. I'm just saying what I think would be nice. If I had credit card offers on my site, and if there were no rules against posting the referral credit, I would happily say, "Thanks for using my link. I'll get XX dollars." But I have weird ideas.

An excellent idea. If I were pulling in the bucks I'd certainly try to use that money to take interesting trips to write about.

Right. Bloggers do this when referrals are blatantly obvious and open to anyone like TripAlertz, Groupon, BigCrumbs and other systems with referral credit. Unless there's contractual reasons credit card referral bonus amounts can't be mentioned I'd prefer full disclosure of those as well. I think that would solve a lot of trust issues that many have. In black and white we know why a particular card is being promoted and can make the judgment call ourselves.

I usually don't use anyone's referral link unless that particular person has provided some kind of assistance to me in recent memory and I want to thank that person financially. Even then I prefer to offer up some other kind of "gift" so it's more thoughtful than another credit in their affiliate account.

Weird ideas are definitely not a bad thing! However, I don't really understand what you would get out of knowing what their exact referral fee was? The bloggers are telling you that they get a referral fee so how does knowing the amount make you trust them more or feel any better about linking from their site? Any blog offering the same product is almost definitely getting the same $$ for the offers.

Whenever a blog posts about how great Credit Card ______ is, I pretty much immediately stop reading. If I wanted to read a blog about finance I would seek those out! My issue with referral fees is when blogs start pushing inferior offers to their readers. I have seen this done in a few instances and that is just disgusting. I know Rick- Frugal Travel Guy will clearly state when a better offer is out there than the deal from his links. By him doing that, I feel like he is one of the more trustworthy bloggers out there.

I don't know about others, but I was actually quite surprised when I first heard the $100-$200 range mentioned. That was an order of magnitude more than I had imagined (*). And of course might explain the sudden influx of blog posts praising credit cards.

Like I said earlier, mutual funds disclose the "load" that goes to brokers recommending their funds. Presumably not voluntarily. I am not suggesting that we need regulation here, but I certainly feel open-ness helps build trust.

Personally, I am interested in reading travel blogs, not credit card advertisements. As a result I have stopped reading many of them (I am sure I am also missing out on some good posts because of that). I don't mind if someone reports on a new exceptional offer (as, say, Gary did when the initial BA 100k offer came out). But we're far from that now. Now it's almost seems to have turned into an echo chamber where one blogger rehashes what another one just wrote about that card, presumably added a bit of their view plus a different referral link.

If I find some time, I might just go collect some stats on what percentage of posts on the popular blogs now hawks credit cards in one form or another.

(*) then again, I may have just been naive since Amex often offers 5000 SPG points for referring friends, which many of us value at $100+.

I figure every referral credit just encourages further informercial posts, and since I actually learn about most offers here on MP, I just go straight to the credit card site. (it's really only been one time so far as I'm really just an amateur churner).

If I am going to use a referral in the future, it would most likely be from someone who is active in this community.

That should make gleff happy.

He'd be on the list, yes. Though of course he's got some other incentives to be active here, as a cofounder/owner.

I hope you didn't take it personal I am just being a hincha. I think your blog is on point.

I completely understand what you are saying. There definitley is a way to become an infomercial for CC's as we have seen with some blogs pushing cards a bit too aggressively.

I was not singling you out but pointing out that ads are ads. The evil comes from the person using them not what type they are or how much you make from them. If you want to promote what a Google ad is talking about then you can. If you want to be predatory and just push whatever affiliate links you have, you can.
I also don't think it matters how much you make from them

Is Google useless because they promote ads to the top of search results? Do ppl know by clicking the ad they get money? or do they think only google makes money?

Also my example with MP having ads right above where I am writing this post. Why not have Google ads that are less controversial? Because they do it right and are not shoving it down peoples throat as the best deal ever.

Again it is not the ads that make people click on them, it is the the content surrounding it.

I am a blogger and I have considered getting both types of ads. I have been testing them out and seeing which I like better. It would be cool to make a bit more cash while telling my story.

Yes, I have no problem with the sub-$100 range. It's these larger values that concern me.