Southwest I am no way saying I like the new Rapid Rewards, but this appears the way DL may be heading.
They'll do it the same way Southwest does it. I don't like it but, from the airline's point of view, it makes sense. Mike
I'm a pretty happy Diamond and am on track to hit million miler status this year. But if the changes as broadly rumored take place at Delta, I won't just say I'll bail, I will bail. I've pretty much ignored AAdvantage despite hitting a million there a while back and getting gold status, but this whole uproar has me looking over the AA Executive Platinum benefits. Real systemwide upgrades? That has my attention. Maybe it's not a great idea to float these kinds of things, like United apparently did previously and maybe Delta is doing now, and gauge the reaction. Fliers may truly start weighing their options.
Reason #247 that I like MP: Here: Three pages of intelligent commentary where I can catch up in five minutes on what could be an important topic There: Now on page 33 of hysterical ranting, crying and threats to picket DL HQ if rumored, ambiguous changes are made. Mike
It's now up to page 80, although the fighting seems to have died down a bit. It might start up again because a few people have suggested that the thread be locked.
Admittedly, I was one of them, but that was days ago. It was page after page of off topic bickering. Seriously, after 80 pages and no new actual info, what else can be said?
Perhaps that there is nothing more than inuendo, hearsay, coincidence, speculation, and rumor. So far. Maybe plagues of locusts are next.
I like to take it slowly with my message boards. However, if you were to analyze my "time of possession," so to speak, it's definitely moving. Mike
OT, but I believe that it's inappropriate for a moderator to decide when a topic has been discussed "enough." If FT or MP were to have serious space limitations, the situation might be different, but if someone doesn't find a threat informative, useful, amusing, etc., they do not need to read it. It's worse, of course, when the moderator has an opinion on the topic.
Assuming the discussion is productive, I completely agree. When it devolves into a multi-page flame war, such as what happened several days ago, it's time to consider closing it.
Or it's time for the moderators to be a bit more attentive to the thread---and delete posts and warn posters when they are stepping over the boundaries.
Who gets to define "productive"? And no, it's never "self-evident." It's only evident to the individual reading. This appeal to shared "objective" criteria regarding discussion boards I loathe censorship in all its forms. Why lock the thread? Let people talk/post/air their opinions and others can disagree, or move on. Have a flame war. Whatever. Who appointed others here to be the parents and "close" the playpen? All censorship is arbitrary. Decisions get made by individuals, and the priviliged ones decide whose criteria are weightier. These individuals are not superior in any objective sense and they certainly don't speak for "rationality" or "reason" or any other justification. The amount of energy dedicated by otherwise broad-minded people to policing what others can/have the right to say always astounds me. These same people find it hugely objectionable when the boot's on the other foot and they find themselves policed. But inevitably, that's the result of such philosophy. Apart from the First Amendment rights, there are benefits. Often, we learn from those with whom we disagree the most. Now I will return you all to normal service. We all know that DL SM is *best in class* already. But the impending and - don't kid yourselves - inevitable changes will create a truly NEW CLASS. This new class will be interstellar in magnitude. It will be the first FFP that utterly fails to incentivize not only flying, but any purchasing whatsoever - only captive customers and DL management will like this NEW CLASS. Why bother even with AmEx if you're going to need 10 years of heavy purchasing for one Y return on the RJ from MKE-YQX.
You know the scary thing about if they go the Southwest route... It leads to more redemptions. Most people just want a quick domestic hop and don't value miles like us, which is tragic. Southwest redemptions were up 15% yoy last year, even with the new, less lucrative rules, probably because it became less binary, and more flights came in 'reasonable' but not outstanding value ranges. http://milecards.com/3830/southwest-free-flights-grew-15-last-year-even-with-new-rules/ But how this could reconcile with a SkyTeam international partner chart is the big question...
Another poster in FT has already commented on this matter, and it is not hard because another international airline (New Zealand) has already implemented a Fare based point system. So there is a model in place to follow. The big issue with a fare based system, is: 1) status will be essentially defined by a monetary value 2) points will come in the form of rebate on money spent - Egro: Mileage runners mean earn squat 3) also, potentially, devalues the miles you have on hand significantly.
I think the big difference between NZ and DL in the alliance world is location, location, location. *A partners aren't going to place a lot of pressure on NZ to offer award space in the way that ST members could get after DL. NZ award space is well known for being hard to come by if you're trying to redeem *A miles. DL is, too, but FBATR could mean that DL has no real reason to define and offer award space to partners. The size difference between the US and NZ makes this a bigger deal, as no one's really stressing over getting that AKL-WLG flight to add to their *A award. OTOH, someone with FlyingBlue miles who wants to go to BNA or SLC or DEN or MSP or SEA or any other location not served by AF/KL/AZ needs a DL domestic flight to add to their award. Perhaps the crummy award inventory we've seen since the three tier system came into place was DL testing to see if their partners cared. If they haven't gotten much pushback, they'll just go ahead with FBATR and define a few seats as "award seats" to offer to partners and conversion of points to cash for their own members.
I agree with you, but of course to be honest there is a simple way around that problem and that is the America pass that Global Alliances sell as well. But in many instances, it is easy to get to the hub cities and that seems to be the core travel for most who redeem award travel to the US.
I do expect DL to go this way, and (given the history of the industry), I'd expect the rest of the industry to follow. From DL's perspective, the only competitor is UA/CO - AA is too small/limited... and DL will either 1) attempt to buy them, or 2) will rattle the sword enough that it forces AA into some kind of restructuring/deal that is beneficial to DL. UA/CO has already toyed with fare-based components. From the international perspective, AF/KL already has implemented changes that are more tied to fare (though they're not fully fare-based).... I can't see AF/KL objecting to a fare-based scheme. I've already moved the bulk of my business away from DL to AA. That's partly driven by corporate deal with AA (DL is also on the corporate "preferred" list, but the fares are almost always higher), the availability of non-stops from IAD/DCA-LAX (one of my key domestic destinations), and the uncompetitive DL SkyMiles program. I typically do enough on DL each year to maintain PM status, but I'm revisiting that in light of my travel patterns, the Skymiles program, and the cost of international upgrades. The E fares add to that. (Our company has a 'must use cheapest fare' policy, meaning that I can't upgrade internationally on DL, and if the E fare is available/cheaper - even by a few bucks - I must choose it). I've got enough RDMs at this point to do one more international J trip for myself & spouse. Once that's done, I see no real reason to continue to achieve PM status on DL. I'm lifetime GM with about 3 million miles. At that point, I'd reduce DL travel as much as I can, fly other airlines when I can, and potentially purchase once-a-year/once-ever-two-years discount J tickets for vacation travel on whichever airline is convenient (probably UA since I'm WAS-based, or AA since I'm tied to them for business travel). As I look at it, it would probably be beneficial as my spend on DL would go from $8,000-ish per year to <$1,000. Most of my RDMs on DL and AA get banked anyway - they're used primarily to bring spouse along (either on business trip, or with me on a paid fare to accumulate status miles). That would go away. The DL AmEx would go away, too - much more value from regular AmEx platinum card. But that's my situation. Others may have a different view. One thing's for sure: it would finally force me to cut most ties with DL. Unfortunate, with a 25 year history of being in either the top tier or second-to-top tier (since DM was created).
One other thing to chew on: if DL eliminates Skymiles & replaces it wholesale, it could, in theory, trigger elimination of the annual complimentary benefits ("lifetime") to million-milers. Remember that "annual complimentary benefits" are extended only as long as the program exists. Would they? Probably not. Could they? Certainly.
Yes, but all airlines can do this. Anyone making plans to bank travel on one airline because of putative "lifetime" benefits - unless very close to a threshold right now - is IMO misguided. The program conditions can change anytime and nobody can guarantee that even an airline that intends in good faith to honor such a commitment will continue to exist to deliver on it in five years' time. Never mind decades into the future. It makes me sad to read of people posting about "saving" miles for retirement. When what DL is about to do to their program will gut the value by 50% or more, overnight. The howls of anguish are oh so inevitable, but very predictable. And then on top of that, there's the issue of trust. DL already has history in this field. Ask DL's "Flying Colonels" what they think about DL's "lifetime" benefits. Hey I already have "annual complimentary" SM status on DL. Really, that's just an emergency reserve against bag fees for this upcoming year if I'm forced onto DL by corporate policy, and nothing more. It incentivizes nothing.
Don't worry...I have ultimate faith in Delta's SM team to make sure the new program doesn't make it easier to redeem.
Delta did a revenue thing, years ago. They had to abandon it, because it created such an uproar. This reminds me of some things that Continental did pre-Bethune in the early 90s. Both times, both airlines had to go back to what they were doing prior to the changes. The bean counters make these decisions and the front-line employees have to implement the changes. Delta will do this, but they will suffer for it. I'm sure. Delta isn't dealing with the reality of their SkyMiles program. SkyMiles is geared to upgrades, not free tickets. SkyMiles website is passable at best. Bottom of the barrel, overall. We would change to United. And if they all change, I say 'class-action' lawsuit. Even if the fineprint says changes may occur at anytime, etc. This could be regarded as a signaled change among airlines. Hackers have been reading corporate emails for ages. If any word got out that the airlines were coordinating any of this, God help them. The courts would not be friendly to any of this.
Sorry, I don't think any FF programs are 'fantastically generous' anymore! What they were in the 1990s and now, not even close to generous.
