Thanks for the feedback. I guess I mainly a domestic flier, maybe the savings are not so big there? I do have the odd international J flight though, I'm thinking with the right luck/skill one could make some good savings there
I'm not aware of any domestic (at least in the US) flights with YQ. In this case, there is no benefit to you. It only comes into play on international flights on a specific set of carriers and sometimes specific routes.
Well what I would love to see and what I think the problem with the FT thread is people have no idea what the 3x's are. Seems like that's the part that's really closely guarded. And without that you can't get anywhere. Everyone on FT always says, well just read the thread, well I did some time ago, I have kept up with that thread for some time now and I took notes and all that sort of thing and I did learn a lot. I have basic understanding of all this and I understood a couple of the more common dumps like the "poke" and "cable" but many things are just so coded or never mentioned at all (from what I can find) you still have no idea. Like someone might post a nice fare that's dump-able. And they post in code and that's fine, I can usually figure out what the starting and destination cities are and what carrier. But then they say something like "and I can get it down to $400 with a 3x" ok ..... so what 3x !!! I mean that tells people nothing if they have no idea what region even to look for. Or yes some people give clues but, I dunno, maybe I'm just "slow" but some of these things people come up with I'm just like WTF. I do some digging but really still come up stuck. What I think would help is if there was some kinda like post with use-able 3x's. I'm not saying you have to spell it out like "LAX-LAS" you could put it in code, but give people an idea of where to start. That way when a fare that may be trick-able comes alone, people can sit and plug stuff in and mess with it. Do this and you would get WAY more sharing and things discovered. Right now no ones sharing because only a small handful of people have everything deciphered and know whats going on. I guess known 3x's is something people want to keep highly secret but at the same time no progress will ever be made with out some help on this. Already this thread is as bad as FT or worse. 130 posts now and really nothing of use yet. Any newbies would just look at this and give up and leave. Though I guess that's what a lot of people here are actually hoping for.
Although, this isn't the actual fare thread, we're just discussing how we want to go about the actual fare thread/s so while this is pretty messy I'm hopeful that it will lead to things being much cleaner, clearer and better organised in the future.
Well for what it's worth - one more vote from a guy who found the FT thread incredibly challenging and frustrating to read through. I know I haven't read enough of the thread yet, but it's tough going. Even the way the FT thread starts off is annoying - there's basically a post that says "I'm going to post something then delete it". Then there's pages of posts afterwards that refer to post contents that are no longer there! Part of FT and presumably of MP, is to share info. While I agree that "mistake" fares / FDs etc should be somewhat shrouded lest they be caught and cancelled, the bizarre nature of the original Trick It thread is all shroud and hardly any sharing for someone who hasn't followed the now 600+ pages / 9200 posts from the beginning. (This is not meant as a criticism more so as an observation.) I for one feel that I'll never be on the inside of the Trick It thread, so I'll pop by from time to time but I don't think I'll ever be able to avail of a trick. That's too bad, but I suppose that's life.
The only way to understand it there is to follow it on a daily, sometimes hourly basis (since a lot of stuff gets deleted often)
I understand that. And I know that some people do follow that much. But there are lots of us who can't. I don't mean to sound sour or anything, but the Trick It thread in its current incarnation is not a terribly useful tool for many people. I personally like the concept of a sub-forum here where admission is only via some known poster who can vouch for you. That way the obscure codes are eliminated. Obviously a restricted-entry forum is still exclusionary by nature, but I think there are enough posters who know other posters that it shouldn't be too hard to get in. Ultimately if you post enough (i.e. If you actively participate in the community) you will become known and someone will eventually vouch for you. For example, there's at least one poster in this very thread who I've never physically met but I would feel quite comfortable vouching for. And there's another poster in this thread who I have met (sat in front of on a flight) who I would hope would feel comfortable vouching for me. IMHO, It can be done.
This clue is still in the thread and this 3x just died couple days ago. So, what's so difficult about the clue (still there, you can even find it with Google) Let Ingrid Have Her New Lamborghini, which is also called pineapple poke?
Take this suggestion with a grain of salt (considering I'm a newbie who is already somewhat confused, from just reading through these first 140 posts), but maybe we need to shrink down to a core of people who can finalize a game plan for how to proceed? Seems like we're just re-hashing the same ideas right now...
I said I understood some of the more common ones like the poke. I understood how to use that one, sure. Sadly I waited and did not book that amazing $229 danish fare and then the poke sadly died Now as far as I understand it the new lowest on that fare is in the mid $400's ? Anyways what I was really trying to say was it seems like there's a lot more 3x's that are just so coded no one can figure them out, or they are never explained at all as far as I can see or if they were they were deleted. I think someone else above said you have to read the thread on an hourly basis, that's so true. I think a lot is said and then edited out or deleted later on, so when people say "oh just read the thread" well that's nice if you could go back in time when the info was there but not very useful now. Its unreasonable to expect someone to monitor that thread 24/7. I'm all for putting in "some" amount of work but people do have lives and also need to sleep
I'll call it like I see it and acknowledge the fact that it's the veterans with the skills that in the end has the power to spread the wealth of knowledge or not. As a FD rookie I have nothing to offer but the sweat of my brow and promises of sharing any eventual future fares. In all honesty to a veteran this isn't much of an offer at all since spreading the shared knowledge carries with it the inherit danger of someone abusing it (Oh I gotta blog about this, maybe I'll get 50 extra hits!!!111oneoneone). So instead of adding any more grovelling to the thread I would simply urge the people in-the-know to get together (PMs or whatnot) and brainstorm it, preferably with an admin in the mix. If you end up in the same spot as on FT then I guess we'll just have to respect that. If anything it at least it will allow a fresh start with talk on new fares/terminology here on MP (or so I hope).
I can't agree more. Putting the travel-hacking issue aside, this debate of open-vs-closed/cryptic is VERY common across many internet forums, even outside the travel ones. And if it hasn't happened yet, I bet similar debates will show up for other travel related topics on this boards. For example, I'd put my money that the Mint thread will either soon turn that way or at least become inundated with posts. Someone in power needs to make an executive decision on the overall theme of milepoint.com, or at a minimum the theme of subforums. From what I'm seeing right now, business on this site just seems to be the same old, a FT with a new face. And is that what the community wants? Just some thoughts ...
I wholeheartedly agree. If we just post the details like in the Deals forum, people will book it, the airlines will notice unusual activity, and it will get shut down. No one will contribute because it will die in a few days or hours, and only those who already know (or really want to learn) how to trick fares will be able to. If people have to learn to interpret a little bit of code, then they will be able to find some things for themselves to share with others and tricks will last longer. Screening people to get in is nonsense, however. Airlines don't troll the Trick It thread looking for loopholes to close down. What happens is that a particular trick gets well known enough that a lot of people start using it, it raises a flag on some monitoring program, and then a sysadmin who's never heard of FT or MP shuts it down like any other software bug. The Pineapple Poke started getting a lot of use, especially once it started dropping 100% and people realized they could return to any destination as an OJ. The codes are there to create a certain threshold that reduces the number of fares booked with a given trick so it does not raise that flag. It does this (1) by preventing people from searching the thread for information, (2) preventing Google from picking up deals (I'm sure they'll develop a sentient web crawler to do this eventually), and (3) making it difficult enough that most people would rather just buy a regular fare. A code only has to be good enough to make a person think for a few minutes, not stump them for hours. Posting the details in public to a dead deal isn't a great idea, since it may make the simpler codes easier to implement without gathering all the details. But it is a compromise I'm willing to make if it means we don't have to make everything public. The problem with the FT thread right now is that it has steadily devolved into a mindnumbingly complex web of cryptic puzzles, which only breeds resentment. It also has become incredibly long with a lot of outdated information, so starting a new one here might be a good thing. That does not mean we need to get rid of any and all codes.
My question to the people who want to keep the FD discussion exclusive: why have the thread on FT/MP to begin with? Just find any (half-)private venue and knock yourselves out. Surely you wouldn't miss these kinds of extensive discussions on the be or not to be of the Trick It! thread(s)? Anything else feels more like grand standing/gloating.
Agreed here as well. I would be happy to help in any way possible. I have booked 2 FD runs, mostly through dumb luck and attempting to read the other thread. All in all, I still have VERY little clue (but a clue nonetheless), and I think that is where most people are at. Maybe a master code list, updated semi-regularly, that is send to a membership list, or a private forum.
It seems like the major complaint people have right now is that they DO NOT want something like the original FT Trick It. MP is an opportunity for a new start, so we need to decide what that will be. I am not an elite FD guru, though I have read the entire thread and have decoded and booked a few FDs. If we want to MP to be different, we need to decide quickly. I am posting here what I think would be a good sticky for this thread (and please comment on it… I don’t pretend to speak for everyone), but first my rationale. Bad things: Overly complex codes (some want no codes at all) Secret 3Xs with no details Secret PM networks Initiation rituals (6000 posts of outdated or deleted info is not good) Elite membership access (Randy Peterson said “no” already on FT) Good things: Some level of secrecy to avoid freeloaders Sharing everything (even if in code) Consistency (so that we don’t have 30 names for the same thing) Clear guidelines (so that we don’t have posts every month asking what’s going on) So what would a sticky look like for people new to this thread? “Greetings and welcome to the Trick It thread! This is a place for discussing ways to trick a given fare using unusual routes, carriers, etc. so that the price is lower than a regular fare. It only works on international routes, and only for certain carriers, so you may or may not benefit. While the tricks do not violate fare rules, airlines may shut down the loopholes if they are abused. So, we use code here to keep out the freeloaders who use the tricks without sharing some information of their own. It will take time to learn the system. We have all put in a lot of effort to learn these tricks and keep them working. Please follow these basic rules: (1) Do not post full itinerary details! This is a sure way that your trick will be abused. It will likely disappear quickly, and those who have shared a similar trick will be upset it no longer works. (2) Use some level of code. A good code will require someone to invest time to decipher it without requiring hours of in-depth research. Using capital letters is not good (e.g., Serious Enthusiasts Apply = SEA) because it does not require time to decipher. Telling people only that the trip takes 34 minutes is not good because there’s no way to search for that. (3) Post enough details! You must post the 3X you used. Simply telling people that a given fare can be dumped is not enough. However, you should use especially good code for the 3X. A 3X can be used for multiple fares, so it deserves a little more code than the particular fare you dumped. (4) Do not ever call the airline! If you call to get a seat assignment, change the itinerary, or something else, they will be alerted to the error and will be motivated to fix it. One rule about tricking fares is you must be flexible. (5) Do not use code to ask questions. We won’t understand what you’re having trouble with. But the answer you get may be in code depending on how sensitive the information is. A good example of how you can write a detailed, yet coded, Trick It post (this is fake, of course): Found $70 base fare each way from Amazon HQ to the Triumphal Arch while sipping maple syrup for most dates through April. Saturday stay required. The Pineapple Poke dumps 100% for $350 a.i. The Needle Prick only dumps 50% for $450 a.i., but may be more convenient for those who like coffee anyway. A translation of above post so you get an idea of how FD’ing works: Found $70 base fare each way from SEA to CDG traveling on AC for most dates through April. Saturday stay required. [Translation of second half omitted for now while we debate how much should be exposed.] How to find a FD on ITA so you can share with the rest of us: [Omitted for now.]”
