UAL CFO says MP elites "over entitiled"

Discussion in 'United | MileagePlus (including Continental)' started by js787, May 19, 2012.

    • Original Member

    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

    The number of pax in each zone matters for W&B. Plus there are a surprising number of folks who turn down the upgrade at the end of boarding once they're settled in, especially if the overheads at the front of the cabin are full. There is definitely effort involved in shuffling that stuff around when the time comes.
    LETTERBOY likes this.
    • Original Member

    Seacarl Gold Member

    Is the effect on W&B material if a flight is full or near-full? I can see a bigger impact on an CR7 than let's say a 738 or A320. If there's an upgrade standby list, you'd know that F will go out full, and it's a matter of where an empty seat will be in Y. If there's both an upgrade standby list and a Y standby list, you may even know the flight's going out full and it's just a question of who will sit where.

    And, now that I think about it after having flown WN yesterday, how does WN deal with W&B when they don't even know who is sitting where on the whole plane? I didn't see the FA's making up a seating chart after everyone's boarded, and certainly no time to enter that into a computer. The flight wasn't completely full, maybe 90% so there were pockets of empty seats scattered. Something doesn't sound right about W&B as an excuse not to upgrade pax who boarded the plane. As for people declining, that would be a reason to bring a ranked list on board.
    • Original Member

    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

    And on non-WN aircraft/airlines people do move around to open seats without notifying the GA or flight crew.
    • Original Member

    sfogate Gold Member

    I always do battlefield upgrades but often you need to wait til the last possible official moment (10 minutes prior to schedule departure) to process them since these are given out due to checked in customers failing to board or you are waiting for connecting customers rushing to the gate. After completing the upgrade process at the 9 minute mark you might have standby customers that need to be processed into the open seats and so on. Plus there is always the customer that isn't interested in moving to F for a variety of reason. It's a game of timing, being in control of your flight and so on.
  1. genemk2 Gold Member

    Always refreshing to see the GA side of the story. Thanks!
    stephenbgarvan likes this.
  2. redwoman Silver Member

    I know that the discussion has departed from the original post, and I wanted to loop back because I read an article that captured the CFO's comments in context. The WSJ article from today May 24, discussed in another thread, captured the entire quote of the CFO. He did NOT say that all elites are over-entitled http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304451104577390140073664500.html.

    Here's the quote to which I am referring:
    • Original Member

    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

    Well... as stated in the OP of this thread:

    "We have certain groups in this (Mileage Plus) program that were over entitled..."

    But of course, everyone on FT seemed to feel that they were meant by that statement. I wonder why.
    LETTERBOY and desamo like this.
  3. desamo Gold Member

    Weirdly, as a Silver, I wasn't offended in the least. Cost/benefit is an issue.
    • Original Member

    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

    As a 1K, I felt my 1P (Gold) wife was over-entitled. Telling her that got me to live in the dog house for a week :D
    LETTERBOY likes this.
  4. desamo Gold Member

    You should have had someone else tell her. :D
    • Original Member

    ssullivan Gold Member

    As with most quotes, context is critical. And this one has been taken out of context repeatedly.
    • Original Member

    carsonheim Gold Member

    Funny thing is, in my four years (3 as CO Plat/UA 1K, and currently UA Plat) as an elite, I've never been offered the opportunity to buy up to first at check-in. I'm simply in the complimentary upgrade queue, and if non-elites purchase the TOD upgrades, I move further down the list and ultimately ride in coach. Not that I'm ENTITLED to an upgrade, but I'd like to be given the SAME OPPORTUNITY to buy-up as non-elites. There are times I would have gladly paid $129 for an upgrade, but wasn't given the opportunity.
    ssullivan and genemk2 like this.
  5. genemk2 Gold Member

    I've had 32 flights this year, and I've only missed an upgrade on 4 flights. Of those 4 flights, I only really expected to be upgraded on 1 flight, which was LAX-IAH on Saturday AM. But it was a lie-flat flight, and I was on a K-fare.

    Another flight where I had a waitlisted SWU (SFO-PEK) didn't clear, but a helpful UC agent, who understood my curiosity about the upgrade process, wrote down the fares paid by the people ahead of me in the upgrade queue, and they had all paid at least double what I had paid.

    I agree, however, that if TOD upgrades are being offered to non-elites, they should be offered to elites as well. However, since it is a buy-up to YBM, it is possible that a non-elite purchased a H-fare, whereas the elite purchased a W-fare. In that case, the non-elite would get a lower price for the TOD because the fare difference would be lower.

    What I think is key is that given the same fare of ticket originally purchased, elites and non-elites should be offered the same price to buy-up to YBM.

    As UA Insider stated, the goal is to make people pay for the real value of F -- it seems silly for someone to demand/expect an upgrade to F when he/she paid 4 cpm for the ticket.
    LETTERBOY, jbcarioca and desamo like this.
    • Original Member

    milchap Gold Member

    Perhaps he was alluding to bottom feeders mileage runners..... :D
    LETTERBOY and jbcarioca like this.
    • Original Member

    milchap Gold Member

    That is the model that Air Canada is now gradually implementing.
    jbcarioca likes this.
    • Original Member

    ClarkyBoy Silver Member

    ALL I EVER ASKED FOR...(sorry for screaming)... well said.
    • Original Member

    Infinite1K Silver Member

    So what is your secret for such a high percentage of upgrades? Do you buy M fares?
  6. genemk2 Gold Member

    No, my CPM average this year is 4.8. Don't know what to tell you. I fly mostly Thursday/Friday nights and Sunday nights.
  7. 8MiHi Silver Member

    I am new at this and was quite fearful of how this thread would spool out, but there were many constructive points made and I am glad to have read through them.
    genemk2 likes this.
  8. stephenbgarvan Silver Member

    mo
    Money for the airlines(and most all consumer businesses) is prime but loyalty & solid customer relationship-building also goes a LONG way toward having customers who will spend money continouosly. Only a moderate % can spend top dollars for most flights and even some of those are prudent, wise consumers and want to be selective about how they spend.
    • Original Member

    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

    Having corporate contracts and a decent product are worth much more.

    Corporate contracts beat this issue without much trouble.
    ssullivan likes this.
    • Original Member

    gleff Co-founder

    To take this back to the beginning, as phrased the comments were certainly accurate, there ARE and WERE over-entitled elites. He isn't specific whom he is referring to in the talk. We've gotten some clarification though since they've made changes to the program and he says at least that the changes addressed this -- things like reducing bonus miles for mid-tier elites and eliminating E+ at booking for Silvers.

    Still, it was a really dumb thing to say for an airline that has created a massive trust gap with its customers.
  9. stephenbgarvan Silver Member

    n
    Not "an issue" per se!! and it benefits customers and businesses alike for much better then just "decent products" .
    May we all UA, customers share in a longterm healthy business relationship.
    • Original Member

    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

    What are you talking about?? :confused:

    There is no "loyalty" relationship which reasonably is more useful to a company than the corporate contracts and providing a decent product. There just isn't.
    ssullivan likes this.

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