UNITED picks Boeing for exclusive 200 jet order

It's ( amost ) official !!!!
Continental ( the NEW UNITED ) management is negotiating exclusively with Boeing for an order of 200 narrow-body jets. Bloomberg reported that the deal is coming within days.
What do you think ? Is the 737-800 really better than the A320 neo ???


Bloomberg.com’s Article:

United Continental Holdings Inc. (UAL) is negotiating only with Boeing Co. (BA) for an order of about 200 narrow-body jets after dropping discussions with Airbus SAS (EAD), two people familiar with the matter said.

Talks had been under way for at least six months about a mix of current-generation Boeing 737s or Airbus A320s plus variants with new, more-efficient engines, said the people, who declined to be identified because details aren’t public.

A United deal would cement ties to a longtime customer and build on Boeing’s victory over Airbus in winning a 100-plane purchase from Delta Air Lines Inc. (DAL) in August. Airbus and Boeing, split a 460-jet order with AMR Corp. (AAMRQ)’s American Airlines in July. The list value for 200 737s would be about $16.9 billion, based on the $84.4 million retail price of the 737-800.

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Not a big surprise given CO's long time relationship with Boeing. I wonder what sort of negotiating position this puts United in. Wouldn't playing them off each other result in a better deal? Perhaps being loyal to one is a better deal for United in the long run (Jokes about United and loyalty, please).

Shame. From a passenger point of view, the Airbus is wider than the Boeing and therefore offers more room. I suppose they know what they are doing, but it does rather fly in the face of the market - maybe they get earlier delivery dates which make up for the, presumedly, higher cost.

<feh> Just what I need, more guppies

I have put a to-do item in my calendar to come back to this thread in eight years to answer this question

Comparing the 737-800 to the A320neo is comparing to apples and oranges. You'd need to compare the A320neo to a 737 MAX-8.
And, neither of of them has flown yet, so I don't think we can start comparing.

It is interesting to note that the neo has out-ordered the 737 MAX 1200ish to 400ish, so UA is bucking the industry trend here. (Although the neo did get a headstart on the market by a year)

What's a guppy in the context of an airplane?

A reference that some use for a Boeing 737 based on its small size and kinda goes hand in hand with some that refer to the 747 as "the whale" .

They're beautiful whales though.

Not surprising at all considering CO's previous gentlemen's agreement with Boeing. Airbus aircraft are good and obviously they need to be around to provide serious competition for Boeing but I'm one of those guys... If it ain't Boeing I'm not going.

Until they've placed firm orders, this appears like a negotiating tactic.

I hope they all have Sky Interior and no IFE.

My sources are actually indicating that UA is also talking to Tupolev.

Compared to what?
B738 v A320. The 738 is longer and the Airbus is slightly wider (from an interior cabin perspective). The 738 holds more pax in a common 2 cabin configuration (how UA operates them).

The Airbus has a slightly longer range, but a lot of folks complain about being on narrow-bodies for longer flights. Both are acceptable for missions within North America.

Not really sure one could rationally refer to a Boeing as a "guppy" unless you're referring to Airbus as a "tadpole" based on technical specifications.

Tupolev..... are they still building commercial aircraft over there...??

I'm not sure I'd say they are actively "building" aircraft, but they are certainly thinking about it.

My source tells me UA is looking at the plans for the Tu-444 and they are thinking of dumping several billion (bottles of vodka, of course) in to the program to get it off the ground.

Personally do not care too much what they do re narrow bodies but how about they throw in a few 748's into the order--the current UA744's are on their last legs. ORD/NRT and HKG service seems to take a few hour delays every few days for mechanical reasons.

After essentially losing the AMR order (at least to the extent that AA was previously commited to Boeing as its exclusive supplier) coupled with the 787 delays, I'm sure Boeing has extra incentive to put together a sweet deal for UAL with the 737MAX.

It's going to be an outstanding airplane... I don't think anyone should be disappointed over this (potential) order.

The configuration of the 737MAX has not yet been finalized so it is unclear whether the neo will have more range. I expect the two to be totally comparable in that regard. As for the current generation, the 737NG variants are typically longer-legged than their A32X counterparts.

Save for a dramatic change of strategy, I suspect UAL is finished with four-engine jets, unfortunately. The A350-900 and oft-rumored 777NG can deliver near-747 capacity at 787 economics, with much more cargo volume. The 747 (due to the shape of the aft fuselage) is not a very efficient cargo hauler for an aircraft its size.

I like Moby Dick -I just never liked the 37 even when PMUA flew them as for me, they were just too confining (and even in F)

Listen to Ch9 and you'll here a ton of Guppy references and if you read the complete part of my post you'll see a whale reference (which you will also here on Ch9 ). Plus, remember that the original 37's were "short and dumpy" in appearance which also adds to the guppy reference. Yes, there have been numerous iterations of the 37 (if an aircraft can iterate ) where it has grown in size but as we all know, nicknames remain over time

Amongst many UAL pilots, the 737-200 was known as the Thunder Guppy, owing to its louder, smokier JT8Ds (at least compared to the -300/500s).

These two options are apples and oranges for sure, except that the 737MAX has not yet been fully defined. After all the aircraft was officially launched only to save the AMR order, so all specifications are not final. The NEO, on the other hand, has been defined for several options.

Boeing could theoretically gain some advantage from the delay but... the 737 fuselage was designed before most of us were born and first flew in 1967. It has undergone endless permutations and skin changes, but has had a series of problems with pressure bulkheads and skin attachments, one reason why Boeing wanted to take longer and do a complete redesign. Those kinds of problems could have been eliminated with a new design and the technology could have been an extension of the 787 rather than another rearrangement of an early 1960's design.

The B748 is precisely the same story. Boring did not want to do it but were driven to do so by the A380. The B747 first flew in 1969. Why would Boeing want to try to extend it once again? Only because it was forced to. The B748 has sold few precisely because it is not a very wise investment.

Please do not think I am anti-Boeing. I am not! However, the B787 shows what Boeing can do. The 737MAX and 748 are being pushed beyond their useful lives, thus are selling only with massive discounts, in the 748 case, or to Boeing loyalists in the 737MAX case.

When Boeing through the horrible birth pains of the B787 I wish they'd had the courage to immediately move to a totally new narrow body. Were they being rational they'd be beginning work on a 777 replacement now too, so they'd be fully ready to launch without crisis a decade from now.

Airbus has been successful because they have committed to plan ahead. Thus there has been steady Boeing market share loss in the categories where they were head to head competitors. Once Boeing finally made the commitment to really deploy advanced technology their order books have overflowed with 787 orders. So what if it is three years late. It is precisely the aircraft the market needed.

I really hope Boeing and Airbus leapfrog each other for decades to come. We all need them both healthy and innovative.

Tupolev no longer exists. It was merged into the United Aircraft Corporation in 2006
http://www.uacrussia.ru/en/

The Sukhoi Superjet
http://sukhoi.org/eng/planes/projects/ssj100/
is the current civil project of UAC and is a direct competitor to Canadair and Embraer. It is now flying, not yet commercially. Boeing, Snecma and Alenia are the partners in the project.

As usual I give more information than you asked for or wanted!

Wikipedia begs to differ

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Superjet_100#Entry_into_service

Thanks..... I will tell Kristina that she can use Tupolev only as a supplier for Fighters for our Fuerza Aerea then.... no Tupolev commmercial jets for Aerolineas then.....

Careful. She may take you up on the offer.

I'm going to make a fantasically "bold" prediction and say neither will be the perfect airplane, like any other there will be tradeoffs associated with both.